NT4sp6a installation disc

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Steven - 15 Dec 2005 00:18 GMT

Hi,

I am trying to install my hard disk in a new PC. I am running NT4sp6a
and due to hardware differences I have to do a install/repair of NT4.
My NT4 install disc won't do this as the hard disk is > 8GB and also
there is software installed that needs sp4 at least.

I am trying to make an install disc with the sp6a updates. I can make a
bootable CD but can't get the content right. If I upgrade the minimum
number of files (atapi.sys, ntfs.sys, ntldr, fastfat.sys) I get a halt
during setup saying one of the files (e.g. fastfat.sys) is corrupt. I
have tried changing the filesize in layout.txt to make the upgraded
files but this doesn't help.

I have tried updating all files using updates in sp6a (sp6i386.exe) but
the install just hangs with a blank blue screen. I am using MakeCab.exe
to compress the updates before replacing the original files.

Can anybody tell me how I can create a NT4sp6a install disc or if it is
not possible ?

Or, is there any way I can NT4 to run sp6i386.exe before it starts after
an install/repair ? I can hide partitions after 8GB to avoid the disk
size problem. I have to run the upgrade after setup has done the repair
but before NT4 starts normally. Could I add anything to txtsetup.inf
for instance to get setup to queue the upgrade ?

Thanks,

Steven

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Dave Patrick - 15 Dec 2005 16:06 GMT

Not possible.

Signature

Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

<snip>

| Can anybody tell me how I can create a NT4sp6a install disc or if it is
| not possible ?

<snip>

Reply to this Message

Steven - 16 Dec 2005 02:24 GMT

>Not possible.

Thanks for the reply. I was beginning to think this path was doomed.

-- Steven

Reply to this Message

Karl-Stephan Werkmeister - 15 Dec 2005 20:49 GMT

> I am trying to install my hard disk in a new PC. I am running NT4sp6a
> and due to hardware differences I have to do a install/repair of NT4.

What is your problem? Is your old PC broken? If not and you need another
driver you could install it using your old PC and then reboot on your
new PC. However, this may result in a system that won't boot on either
machine...Why do you think you have to do a repair install? Do you get a
BSOD (which one)?

> My NT4 install disc won't do this as the hard disk is > 8GB and also
> there is software installed that needs sp4 at least.

You may be able to use another atapi.sys during the installation
process.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/197667/EN-US/
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/243896/en-us
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-unsup-ed/fixes/nt40/atapi/atapi.exe

Read the Readme.txt included in the atapi.exe

If you need another kernel / hal on your new PC (and you know them) you
may want to create a new entry in your boot.ini using the /KERNEL= /HAL=
switches. However, you need to be able to access your WINNT\SYSTEM32
folder and copy these files into it (using a different name and using
your old PC, Linux, DOS tools).

Non-vital software (virus scanners, video drivers (/BASEVIDEO switch in
boot.ini), ...) could be temporarily disabled if you are able to boot on
any other (your old) PC.

> I am trying to make an install disc with the sp6a updates. I can make a
> bootable CD but can't get the content right. If I upgrade the minimum
> number of files (atapi.sys, ntfs.sys, ntldr, fastfat.sys) I get a halt
> during setup saying one of the files (e.g. fastfat.sys) is corrupt. I
> have tried changing the filesize in layout.txt to make the upgraded
> files but this doesn't help.

Interesting idea, but I guess you won't get what you want. However, it
might work if you reinstall using the "B"-parameter: WINNT /B. All
needed files will be extracted to "$WIN_NT$.~LS" and "$WIN_NT$.~BT"
(ntldr to your boot root). It should be possible to replace files using
a boot floppy disc before you reboot from hdd again (and go on with the
install procedure - have you got an FAT16-partition within the first 8
GB?).

> I have tried updating all files using updates in sp6a (sp6i386.exe) but
> the install just hangs with a blank blue screen. I am using MakeCab.exe
> to compress the updates before replacing the original files.
>
> Can anybody tell me how I can create a NT4sp6a install disc or if it is
> not possible ?

It seems to be impossible (I haven't seen someone else who published how
to...?).

> Or, is there any way I can NT4 to run sp6i386.exe before it starts after
> an install/repair ?

No.

> I can hide partitions after 8GB to avoid the disk
> size problem. I have to run the upgrade after setup has done the repair
> but before NT4 starts normally.

Again, what's your underlying problem besides hal, kernel, atapi.sys,
ntldr?

> Could I add anything to txtsetup.inf
> for instance to get setup to queue the upgrade ?

I don't think so...

Stephan

Reply to this Message

Steven - 16 Dec 2005 03:32 GMT

>> I am trying to install my hard disk in a new PC. I am running NT4sp6a
>> and due to hardware differences I have to do a install/repair of NT4.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>machine...Why do you think you have to do a repair install? Do you get a
>BSOD (which one)?

My current PC is a P200MMX and pretty old and slow. I have just been
given a much better PC (it's not a good sign when people are throwing
out PCs that are much better than what I am using) so I want to move my
disk (multi-boot, multi-volume) to this new PC. W98 handles the PC
change, NT5 can be repaired to accommodate the change, but NT4 is a
problem.

The disk size (80GB) is okay as I have the atapi.sys update you
suggested. However, the NTFS volumes are inaccessible to NT4sp1 (as on
the NT4 install disc) as NT5 has accessed them and updated the NTFS
level. I can get around this by formatting the volume with NT4 and then
restoring all files (again using NT4) and then doing an upgrade install
using the NT4 install disc.

The problem with this upgrade approach is that the OS is NT4sp1. When
it tries to start it crashes as software on the volume needs SP4 at
least. Just now I have found that manually updating files using the
SP6a files does get the system to a state where it can boot and I can
then apply SP6a normally to fix all that I missed.

So, I may have a solution but it is flaky at best and tedious.

>If you need another kernel / hal on your new PC (and you know them) you
>may want to create a new entry in your boot.ini using the /KERNEL= /HAL=
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>boot.ini), ...) could be temporarily disabled if you are able to boot on
>any other (your old) PC.

I can move shortcuts out of the startup folders to stop some things but
is there any way I can stop services starting automatically ? Is there
any way I can access a registry hive using another copy of NT4 ? I have
two installations of NT4 (normal and backup) on my disk. If I could use
RegEdit (or whatever) in one copy to access the registry on the other
this would be great.

>Interesting idea, but I guess you won't get what you want. However, it
>might work if you reinstall using the "B"-parameter: WINNT /B. All
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>install procedure - have you got an FAT16-partition within the first 8
>GB?).

I will try this idea. I tried this today but the boot just kept
returning to ntldr so I suspect $LDR$ was aborting due to the chasged
files. However, there is no error message so I'm not sure why it
doesn't work.

>> Can anybody tell me how I can create a NT4sp6a install disc or if it is
>> not possible ?
>
>It seems to be impossible (I haven't seen someone else who published how
>to...?).

Unfortunate but true I now think. This is a pity as it seems to be the
proper solution to my problems.

>Again, what's your underlying problem besides hal, kernel, atapi.sys,
>ntldr?

a) NTFS volumes inaccessible due to access by NT5. I asked elsewhere if
I could stop NT5 updating the NTFS level but apparently not.
b) Repaired NT4 volume won't start due to software that needs SP4 or
later. I need to be able to install SP6a before NT4 loads its services
or have a 'step-by-step' boot option so I modify the startup.

Thanks,

Steven

Reply to this Message

nt4-ever - 16 Dec 2005 20:54 GMT

if you have the three boot floppys (if not,
there is option to create them) just
replace the atapi.sys on the third floppy
with that from service pack 6a

then it Might recognize the win 2000 NTFS
formatted disk ...

Reply to this Message

Steven - 16 Dec 2005 22:23 GMT

>if you have the three boot floppys (if not,
>there is option to create them) just
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>then it Might recognize the win 2000 NTFS
>formatted disk ...

The updated atapi.sys stops the problem with disks > 8GB. I presume it
is the updated ntfs.sys that is needed to access an NT5 NTFS volume.
Changing ntfs.sys on the install CD causes setupldr.bin to report the
change (ntfs.sys is corrupt) and abort. I did manage to get an updated
set of floppies to start setup and recognise the NT5 NTFS volume and
offer me the choice of upgrading the installation. But it then reported
that the installation was corrupted beyond repair (damn).

-- Steven

Reply to this Message

nt4-ever - 18 Dec 2005 01:18 GMT

layout.inf has the file sizes:
ntfs.sys = 1,,367104,,,,_3,4,0,0
under section:
; filename_on_source = diskid,subdir,size,checksum,spare,spare
; extra fields are nt-specific
;
bootmediaord,targetdirectory,upgradedisposition,textmodedisposition,targetname
[SourceDisksFiles]

whilst new sp6a ntfs.sys is
379,344 bytes
might suffice to change size in
layout.inf from 367104
to 379344 ... ???

Reply to this Message

Steven - 18 Dec 2005 04:07 GMT

>whilst new sp6a ntfs.sys is
>379,344 bytes
>might suffice to change size in
>layout.inf from 367104
> to 379344 ... ???

Nice try but it doesn't help. I found layout.inf and changed this size
(and others) but setupldr.bin still rejects the new ntfs.sys. I think
layout.inf is used later when usetup.exe moves the files to the proper
folders.

If I replace all the files I can with compressed versions of the files
from sp6a and then attempt to install NT4 the install doesn't fail due
to 'file %s is corrupted' but just hangs on a blank blue screen. I
don't know if it is getting past the file checking stage. SP6a has lots
of files that aren't in the original install set so perhaps the updated
install needs some of these.

The original install contains some registry entries in setupldr.bin and
also in the software and system files. I am wondering if these entries
contain details that allow setupldr.bin to verify certain files (like
ntfs.sys and fastfat.sys for instance).

I have now managed to get an updated set of install floppies to
recognise my NTFS5 volume and offer to upgrade the installation. But
when it subsequently tries it reports that the installation is corrupt
beyond repair. I can't get a CD install to go this far yet.

-- Steven

Reply to this Message

Mistoffolees - 18 Dec 2005 09:17 GMT

>>whilst new sp6a ntfs.sys is
>>379,344 bytes
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> -- Steven

If what is being proposed with Windows NT4 is an academic
exercise, then proceed. As already learned, SP6a cannot be
slipstreamed into the Windows NT installation cdrom. And
there are also limitations that will concern partition size
and allowable locations of the NT system files.

The alternative to this attempt is to upgrade to Windows 2000
(aka Windows NT 5.0) or Windows XP (aka Windows NT 5.1). They
have resolved the issues being described. However, not sure
how well Windows 2000 might run on the Pentium 200 MMX. (BTW,
your reference NT5 is Windows 2000?)

Reply to this Message

Steven - 18 Dec 2005 10:16 GMT

>If what is being proposed with Windows NT4 is an academic
>exercise, then proceed. As already learned, SP6a cannot be
>slipstreamed into the Windows NT installation cdrom. And
>there are also limitations that will concern partition size
>and allowable locations of the NT system files.

Yes, it is academic now as my system is now working properly. The
system is multi-boot (NT4, NT5.0, and others) and I couldn't repair the
NT4 installations to accommodate the new motherboard. The disk size was
a problem as was the fact that all the NTFS volumes are NTFS5 (I'm not
sure of the proper name for the later NTFS standard). I did manage to
repair the NT4 installations but it was a long and tedious process.

>The alternative to this attempt is to upgrade to Windows 2000
>(aka Windows NT 5.0) or Windows XP (aka Windows NT 5.1).

I will buy XP and upgrade.

-- Steven

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