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Windows Server Forum / Windows NT / Setup / August 2004

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Installing NT Server on PC with large Hard Drive

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Tony Starr - 23 Jul 2004 13:45 GMT
Folks I need some help.

I have a new PC with no Operating System Loaded on it.
The hard disk is 160GB and has not been partitioned.
I am trying to load Windows NT Server 4.0

The setup runs ok until I put in the second floppy  disk. The last message
displayed on the status bar before the system crashes is "Setup is loading
Files (FAT File System)". The screen the flickers and the system reboots.

What do I need to do?
Do I need to partition the hard disk? If so what utility do I use and how do
I do it?
I have seen some articles on the Internet saying that I should download the
lastest atapi.sys file and supply it when asked to do so. Unfortunately my
installation does not go that far. I am not prompted for anything apart from
the second setup disk.

I hope someone can help.
Thanks
Tony
the fly - 23 Jul 2004 21:38 GMT
>Folks I need some help.
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Thanks
>Tony

    NT Setup cannot recognize a disk volume that large.  You need
the later NT IDE driver atapi.sys from Service Pack 4 or later.  You
can download the files here:

http://hard-drives.driverfiles.net/page,show,22574,138,10,.html

    Expand the files to a floppy disk.
    Boot with the NT setup floppies.  During the running of disk
#2, you are given the option to specify mass-storage controllers.
Choose "S" to specify, and a list of drivers opens in the next window.
Choose the last item in the list: "Other Mass-Storage Controllers."
Supply the disk with the later ATAPI driver when prompted.  Setup
should now recognize the full size of your disk.
    Setup can create partitions up to 4GB.  You can create other
partitions and logical drives as you like using Disk Administrator,
after NT is up and running.
Tony Starr - 24 Jul 2004 01:33 GMT
Thanks for the reply, but unfortunately the setup program crashes before
prompting me to specify what mass storage devices I have.

Please, anyone, help.

> >Folks I need some help.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> partitions and logical drives as you like using Disk Administrator,
> after NT is up and running.
Dave Patrick - 24 Jul 2004 04:49 GMT
To do a clean install, either boot the Windows NT install CD-Rom or setup
disks. When you get to the point, delete the existing NTFS and or other
partitions found. After you delete the partition(s) abort  the install, then
again restart the pc booting the CD-Rom or setup disks to avoid unexpected
drive letter assignments with your new install.

Depending on your drive's geometry Windows NT supports a system partition
(the first primary active partition and where the files required to start
the OS reside (boot sector)) limited to 7.8gB NTFS or 4gB Fat16, while the
boot partition (where the OS is installed) is not limited in size. You wont
be able to create a system partition greater than 4gB with Windows NT Setup;
if you need a system partition 4gB - 7.8 gB, you'll need to use Partition
Magic or use another NT machine to create the first primary active
partition. The system and boot partition can be the same partition.

If you created one large system/ boot partition > 7.8 gB and installed the
OS, it may work, but the problem is if you defragment the drive or service
pack the install and the files ntdetect.com, ntldr, boot.ini, and
ntbootdd.sys end up being relocated to a point beyond the 7.8 gB barrier,
then the bootstrap process wont be able to find them and the OS wont start.

Once the OS is installed you can use Disk Administrator to partition and
format the rest of your drive. You'll need atapi.sys from SP4 or later for
Windows NT to be able to recognize a drive larger than ~ 8 gB. See the first
article for the link and instructions.

Installing Windows NT on a Large IDE Hard Disk
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=197667

ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-unsup-ed/fixes/nt40/atapi/atapi.exe

Windows NT 4.0 Supports Maximum of 7.8-GB System Partition
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=224526

Boot Partition Created During Setup Limited to 4 Gigabytes
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=119497

Windows NT Partitioning Rules During Setup
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=138364

Signature

Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

| Thanks for the reply, but unfortunately the setup program crashes before
| prompting me to specify what mass storage devices I have.
|
| Please, anyone, help.
Tony Starr - 25 Jul 2004 07:27 GMT
Dave,

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately at the point that the Setup Program
bombs out I have not been asked for any input. I have not got to the point
where I am give an option to delete a partition or do anything else. The
only thing the setup program has asked for is for the second setup disk to
be inserted.

Regards
Tony
> To do a clean install, either boot the Windows NT install CD-Rom or setup
> disks. When you get to the point, delete the existing NTFS and or other
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Installing Windows NT on a Large IDE Hard Disk
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=197667

ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-unsup-ed/fixes/nt40/atapi/atapi.exe

> Windows NT 4.0 Supports Maximum of 7.8-GB System Partition
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=224526
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> |
> | Please, anyone, help.
Dave Patrick - 25 Jul 2004 13:59 GMT
Try recreating the setup disks or better yet just boot the CD-Rom.

If you lose (or otherwise need to recreate)  the three boot floppies (also
known as Setup Disks) that came with your Windows NT 4.0 CD-ROM, you can
easily use the CD-ROM's setup utility, WINNT32.EXE to create new copies of
them. To do so, take your Windows NT 4.0 CDROM to another Windows NT
Workstation or Server 4.0 system and run the command

WINNT32.EXE /OX

From the CD-ROM's \I386 directory. The Setup program will prompt you to
insert three formatted disks to create the boot floppies but won't begin the
installation process itself. You can also run the command

WINNT.EXE /OX

From the CD-ROM's \I386 directory on a Windows 95, Windows 3.11 or DOS
machine to create the three boot floppies. (note: the disks are created 3,
2, 1)

Signature

Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

| Dave,
|
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
| Regards
| Tony
Tony Starr - 26 Jul 2004 09:31 GMT
Dave,

Thanks for your response. I made a new set of  boot floppies but again the
setup process fails at exactly the same spot. Any ideas.

Regards
Tony

> Try recreating the setup disks or better yet just boot the CD-Rom.
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> | Regards
> | Tony
Calvin - 26 Jul 2004 10:08 GMT
Hi Tony,

A thought just came to mind - the floppy drive on this machine is a standard
floppy drive ?  There is a known issue with a LS-120 floppy drive failing the
install at the point you mention.

Microsoft Knowledgebase article 172773 - "Problems Using LS120 Floppy Disk Drive
With Windows NT Setup"  has details.

Calvin.
Tony Starr - 27 Jul 2004 11:29 GMT
Thanks Calvin,

The Knowledge base article  you suggested pointed me in the direction of
running the setup from CD. This in turn lead to the error "Windows NT
requires a Hard Drive Volume"

My investigations lead me to believe that I need to boot the system under
DOS 6.22, partition and format the hard disk and then try setup again. I am
in the process of trying this now. I will post back to this group and let
you know how I got on.

Regards
Tony

> Hi Tony,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Calvin.
xe77 - 27 Jul 2004 15:45 GMT
This leads us to believe there's an issue with the floppy
drive.
In any case it appears that Windows NT either doesn't
understand the partition table, there's a file system
marked primary and active that Windows NT doesn't support
or the boot sector is damaged.
In all cases you can use FDISK to recreate the MBR, delete
unsupported partitions or rebuild the partition table.

>-----Original Message-----
>Thanks Calvin,
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
>.
Tony Starr - 29 Jul 2004 01:52 GMT
I booted under dos 6.22, used Fdisk to remove all partitions and created a
Primary Dos Partition. I rebooted the system under Dos 6.2 and formatted the
harddisk. It only seemed to give me a 2GB drive instead of the whole 160GB
but I figured this was a Dos limitation and pressed ahead. I ran the Windows
NT setup from CD using the WINNT /B command line. The first part of the
installation ran well. I was instructed to reboot to allow the installation
to continue. After rebooting the system got into a loop where it just kept
rebooting itself.

I tried running the setup program again from floppy disk and it fell over in
extacly the same place as before. Disk Two - Loading FAT File System.

Does this sound like I have faulty hardware?
Should I be using a different tool to partition the hard drive? If so what
do you recommend?

Regards
Tony

> Thanks Calvin,
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> >
> > Calvin.
Dave Patrick - 26 Jul 2004 13:53 GMT
See if George's idea will work for you.

Signature

Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

| Dave,
|
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
| Regards
| Tony
xe77 - 25 Jul 2004 19:18 GMT
You have a bad boot diskette.  Recreate the diskettes or
use the CD-ROM to boot directly.
You can recreate the diskettes from MS-DOS (with a CD-ROM
driver)
Boot to MS-DOS and Type:
d: [ENTER]
cd\i386 [ENTER]
winnt /OX [ENTER]
If running Windows NT's Virtual DOS or an MS-DOS shell
type:
winnt32 /OX [ENTER]

>-----Original Message-----
>Dave,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Regards
>Tony
Calvin - 25 Jul 2004 02:54 GMT
Hi Tony,

it is possible that the intial stage of setup is incorrectly recognising your
hardware and selecting the wrong drivers to access it. Check the screen early in
setup where it identifies your hardware (ie: motherboard type etc..) and ensure
the right options are selected.

As to loading NT4 on a large harddisk, read this page:

http://nt4ref.zcm.com.au/bigdisk.htm

It should answer most of your questions regarding how to proceed, once you get
the install to run successfully.

Calvin.
Tony Starr - 25 Jul 2004 07:26 GMT
Calvin,

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately at the point that the Setup Program
bombs out I have not been asked for any input. No configuration details have
been displayed.
The only think the setup program has asked for is for the second setup disk
to be inserted.

Regards
Tony

> Hi Tony,
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Calvin.
Jiri Tuma - 26 Jul 2004 10:56 GMT
Seems you have incompatible hardware. Try <F6> key trick. Boot either form
CD or floppies and, at begin of setup, when black screen with message like
"setup is inspecting your hardware ..." appears, press <F6> key a few times
(for sure as there is no immediate reaction). This will disable
autodetecting and autoloading of standard mass storage drivers. As NT setup
will not run autodecting routines, there is less chance to hang computer and
it will allow you to load updated drivers instead of standard build-in
versions. During this procedure NT setup will insert additional Mass storage
devices configuration step just after first phase of setup (because of
disabled autoloading, setup cannot access disk without manual loading of
primary disk driver). Here you can use your floppy with updated atapi
driver. Also do not forget to specify loading of standard atapi CD ROM
device driver (select it from list of build-in drivers). This driver is
normally autoloaded, but with <F6> it is not and if you do not load it
manually, setup will lost access to setup CD after switching to NT kernel
based phase of setup.

luck

George

> Folks I need some help.
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Thanks
> Tony
Tony Starr - 01 Aug 2004 07:58 GMT
booted under dos 6.22, used Fdisk to remove all partitions and created a
Primary Dos Partition. I rebooted the system under Dos 6.2 and formatted the
harddisk. It only seemed to give me a 2GB drive instead of the whole 160GB
but I figured this was a Dos limitation and pressed ahead. I ran the Windows
NT setup from CD using the WINNT /B command line. The first part of the
installation ran well. I was instructed to reboot to allow the installation
to continue. After rebooting the system got into a loop where it just kept
rebooting itself.

I tried running the setup program again from floppy disk and it fell over in
extacly the same place as before. Disk Two - Loading FAT File System.

Does this sound like I have faulty hardware?
Should I be using a different tool to partition the hard drive? If so what
do you recommend?

Regards
Tony

> Seems you have incompatible hardware. Try <F6> key trick. Boot either form
> CD or floppies and, at begin of setup, when black screen with message like
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> > Thanks
> > Tony
Dave Patrick - 01 Aug 2004 15:27 GMT
Try the F6 loading atapi.sys from SP4 or later.

Signature

Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

| booted under dos 6.22, used Fdisk to remove all partitions and created a
| Primary Dos Partition. I rebooted the system under Dos 6.2 and formatted the
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
| Regards
| Tony
Mark Miodus - 03 Aug 2004 14:48 GMT
This message is for "Tony Starr"
<tonyXXXnospamxxxStarr@ozemail.com.au

Tony,

>-----Original Message-----
>Folks I need some help.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>.
Mark Miodus - 03 Aug 2004 14:48 GMT
This message is for "Tony Starr"
<tonyXXXnospamxxxStarr@ozemail.com.au

Tony,

>-----Original Message-----
>Folks I need some help.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>.
Mark Miodus - 03 Aug 2004 14:51 GMT
This message is for "Tony Starr"
<tonyXXXnospamxxxStarr@ozemail.com.au

Tony,
Did you ever get your issue resolved? If so what was the
final approach that you took? I am facing a simimular
issue with a gatewauy solo 9100 (yes the floppy drive is
an LS 120) that has had a new (unformatted) 40G drive
installed. There is a chance that what you had to do may
help me avoid the same issue.
Thanx,
Mark
>-----Original Message-----
>Folks I need some help.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>.
Calvin - 03 Aug 2004 23:01 GMT
Hi Mark,

I presume this machine has a CD-ROM drive. Is it bootable ?  IF so you can boot
from the NT install CD, and this seems to get you round the 'LS-120' problem.

As for installing to a 40GB HDD see http://nt4ref.zcm.com.au/bigdisk.htm for a
suggested solution.

Calvin.
Tony Starr - 09 Aug 2004 06:31 GMT
Mark,

I have still not got this problem resolved. How about you?

Folks,

Thank you all for your help. I am still stuck. Here is the current status.
I have run the setup program supplying the Service Pack 4 version of
Atapi.dll when prompted. The setup program ran to completion. I was then
instructed to reboot the system to allow the setup program to complete the
installation. On rebooting the system gets into a loop. The system first
displays the messsage that Setup is inspecting the hardware configuration.
Next a blue screen appears title Windows NT Setup. Within a second the
system reboots itself and gets stuck in a loop of inspecting the hardware
and rebooting.

Please help!!!

Regards
Tony

> This message is for "Tony Starr"
> <tonyXXXnospamxxxStarr@ozemail.com.au
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> >
> >.
Calvin - 09 Aug 2004 07:37 GMT
Hi Tony,

if you have access to the files - manually copy the latest ntldr. and
ntdetect.com (from Service Pack 6a) onto the affected machine's system partition
(overwriting the ones put there by the NT setup) and see if that helps :-)

Calvin.
Calvin - 09 Aug 2004 09:42 GMT
Hi again Tony,

PS: the thought just occurred to me as well - please check the machine you are
installing on is clean - the 'endless reboot loop' during setup is also a
symptom possible in the case of a boot sector virus being present - better make
sure this isn't the case before you continue.

Calvin.
Tony Starr - 10 Aug 2004 07:48 GMT
Scanned for Viruses. None found.

Regards
Tony

> Hi again Tony,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Calvin.
Calvin - 10 Aug 2004 08:07 GMT
Hi Tony,

Running out of ideas here - can you also check how the access to the HDD is
configured in BIOS - I recommend it be locked in LBA mode, with fixed values
(correct values for the geometry - the HDD detect function of BIOS is your
freind here) ie: DON'T put it to 'automatic' (if the BIOS offers the option).

Past that I can't - without some more clues from you anyway - think of anything
else.

Perhaps a bit more detail would help - HDD size, motherboard, processor, RAM,
HDD connection standard (IDE/SCSI etc)  any other non-standard peripherals etc...

Calvin.
Tony Starr - 10 Aug 2004 05:31 GMT
Thanks Calvin

   I gave this a try but had the same results.

Regards
Tony

> Hi Tony,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Calvin.
John S - 24 Aug 2004 17:21 GMT
Tony
Don't know if you resolved this...

I had similar problem

I took a workstation - loaded NT server - updated with all
service packs and patches - cloned upto my network, then
cloned back down to my machine that had a large harddrive
and other hardware that NT server was not happy with ...

>-----Original Message-----
>Folks I need some help.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>.
Calvin - 24 Aug 2004 23:09 GMT
Hi John,

Nothing heard from Tony since 10 August, so I'm unsure of whether his problem is
solved or not.

Calvin.
Tony Starr - 30 Aug 2004 13:32 GMT
Hi All,

At the end of the day, I went and bought Windows 2000 Pro. I loaded it,
partitioning my hard drive so that the C:drive was a 4MB FAT, and the D:
drive had the remaining 116 MB as NTFS. All installed nicely. Reinstalled
windows NT and hit the same problem. Installation seems to go OK, I supply
the ATAPI.dll from Service Pack 4 but when the system reboots to complete
the installation things get nasty. The system starts to load NT, then the
screen flickers and it goes into a reboot cycle.

In the end I gave up and installed Win 2000 Pro. I figure that some bit of
hardware in my brand spanking new computer is incompatible with NT. This is
not an ideal solution as I need to be able support clients using SQL Server
7.0 running under NT, but I can only have SQL Server 7.0 Desktop under Win
2000 Pro. I had to get the system back up and running so that I could get
back to work. I am keeping my fingers crossed that I can get by with my
current set up.

Anyway, thank you all so much for your help.

Regards
Tony

> Hi John,
>
> Nothing heard from Tony since 10 August, so I'm unsure of whether his problem is
> solved or not.
>
> Calvin.
 
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