Windows Server Forum / Windows NT / Setup / August 2004
Installing NT Server on PC with large Hard Drive
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Tony Starr - 23 Jul 2004 13:45 GMT Folks I need some help.
I have a new PC with no Operating System Loaded on it. The hard disk is 160GB and has not been partitioned. I am trying to load Windows NT Server 4.0
The setup runs ok until I put in the second floppy disk. The last message displayed on the status bar before the system crashes is "Setup is loading Files (FAT File System)". The screen the flickers and the system reboots.
What do I need to do? Do I need to partition the hard disk? If so what utility do I use and how do I do it? I have seen some articles on the Internet saying that I should download the lastest atapi.sys file and supply it when asked to do so. Unfortunately my installation does not go that far. I am not prompted for anything apart from the second setup disk.
I hope someone can help. Thanks Tony
the fly - 23 Jul 2004 21:38 GMT >Folks I need some help. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Thanks >Tony NT Setup cannot recognize a disk volume that large. You need the later NT IDE driver atapi.sys from Service Pack 4 or later. You can download the files here:
http://hard-drives.driverfiles.net/page,show,22574,138,10,.html
Expand the files to a floppy disk. Boot with the NT setup floppies. During the running of disk #2, you are given the option to specify mass-storage controllers. Choose "S" to specify, and a list of drivers opens in the next window. Choose the last item in the list: "Other Mass-Storage Controllers." Supply the disk with the later ATAPI driver when prompted. Setup should now recognize the full size of your disk. Setup can create partitions up to 4GB. You can create other partitions and logical drives as you like using Disk Administrator, after NT is up and running.
Tony Starr - 24 Jul 2004 01:33 GMT Thanks for the reply, but unfortunately the setup program crashes before prompting me to specify what mass storage devices I have.
Please, anyone, help.
> >Folks I need some help. > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > partitions and logical drives as you like using Disk Administrator, > after NT is up and running. Dave Patrick - 24 Jul 2004 04:49 GMT To do a clean install, either boot the Windows NT install CD-Rom or setup disks. When you get to the point, delete the existing NTFS and or other partitions found. After you delete the partition(s) abort the install, then again restart the pc booting the CD-Rom or setup disks to avoid unexpected drive letter assignments with your new install.
Depending on your drive's geometry Windows NT supports a system partition (the first primary active partition and where the files required to start the OS reside (boot sector)) limited to 7.8gB NTFS or 4gB Fat16, while the boot partition (where the OS is installed) is not limited in size. You wont be able to create a system partition greater than 4gB with Windows NT Setup; if you need a system partition 4gB - 7.8 gB, you'll need to use Partition Magic or use another NT machine to create the first primary active partition. The system and boot partition can be the same partition.
If you created one large system/ boot partition > 7.8 gB and installed the OS, it may work, but the problem is if you defragment the drive or service pack the install and the files ntdetect.com, ntldr, boot.ini, and ntbootdd.sys end up being relocated to a point beyond the 7.8 gB barrier, then the bootstrap process wont be able to find them and the OS wont start.
Once the OS is installed you can use Disk Administrator to partition and format the rest of your drive. You'll need atapi.sys from SP4 or later for Windows NT to be able to recognize a drive larger than ~ 8 gB. See the first article for the link and instructions.
Installing Windows NT on a Large IDE Hard Disk http://support.microsoft.com/?id=197667
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-unsup-ed/fixes/nt40/atapi/atapi.exe
Windows NT 4.0 Supports Maximum of 7.8-GB System Partition http://support.microsoft.com/?id=224526
Boot Partition Created During Setup Limited to 4 Gigabytes http://support.microsoft.com/?id=119497
Windows NT Partitioning Rules During Setup http://support.microsoft.com/?id=138364
 Signature Regards,
Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup. Microsoft Certified Professional Microsoft MVP [Windows] http://www.microsoft.com/protect
| Thanks for the reply, but unfortunately the setup program crashes before | prompting me to specify what mass storage devices I have. | | Please, anyone, help. Tony Starr - 25 Jul 2004 07:27 GMT Dave,
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately at the point that the Setup Program bombs out I have not been asked for any input. I have not got to the point where I am give an option to delete a partition or do anything else. The only thing the setup program has asked for is for the second setup disk to be inserted.
Regards Tony
> To do a clean install, either boot the Windows NT install CD-Rom or setup > disks. When you get to the point, delete the existing NTFS and or other [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Installing Windows NT on a Large IDE Hard Disk > http://support.microsoft.com/?id=197667 ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-unsup-ed/fixes/nt40/atapi/atapi.exe
> Windows NT 4.0 Supports Maximum of 7.8-GB System Partition > http://support.microsoft.com/?id=224526 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > | > | Please, anyone, help. Dave Patrick - 25 Jul 2004 13:59 GMT Try recreating the setup disks or better yet just boot the CD-Rom.
If you lose (or otherwise need to recreate) the three boot floppies (also known as Setup Disks) that came with your Windows NT 4.0 CD-ROM, you can easily use the CD-ROM's setup utility, WINNT32.EXE to create new copies of them. To do so, take your Windows NT 4.0 CDROM to another Windows NT Workstation or Server 4.0 system and run the command
WINNT32.EXE /OX
From the CD-ROM's \I386 directory. The Setup program will prompt you to insert three formatted disks to create the boot floppies but won't begin the installation process itself. You can also run the command
WINNT.EXE /OX
From the CD-ROM's \I386 directory on a Windows 95, Windows 3.11 or DOS machine to create the three boot floppies. (note: the disks are created 3, 2, 1)
 Signature Regards,
Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup. Microsoft Certified Professional Microsoft MVP [Windows] http://www.microsoft.com/protect
| Dave, | [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | Regards | Tony Tony Starr - 26 Jul 2004 09:31 GMT Dave,
Thanks for your response. I made a new set of boot floppies but again the setup process fails at exactly the same spot. Any ideas.
Regards Tony
> Try recreating the setup disks or better yet just boot the CD-Rom. > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > | Regards > | Tony Calvin - 26 Jul 2004 10:08 GMT Hi Tony,
A thought just came to mind - the floppy drive on this machine is a standard floppy drive ? There is a known issue with a LS-120 floppy drive failing the install at the point you mention.
Microsoft Knowledgebase article 172773 - "Problems Using LS120 Floppy Disk Drive With Windows NT Setup" has details.
Calvin.
Tony Starr - 27 Jul 2004 11:29 GMT Thanks Calvin,
The Knowledge base article you suggested pointed me in the direction of running the setup from CD. This in turn lead to the error "Windows NT requires a Hard Drive Volume"
My investigations lead me to believe that I need to boot the system under DOS 6.22, partition and format the hard disk and then try setup again. I am in the process of trying this now. I will post back to this group and let you know how I got on.
Regards Tony
> Hi Tony, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Calvin. xe77 - 27 Jul 2004 15:45 GMT This leads us to believe there's an issue with the floppy drive. In any case it appears that Windows NT either doesn't understand the partition table, there's a file system marked primary and active that Windows NT doesn't support or the boot sector is damaged. In all cases you can use FDISK to recreate the MBR, delete unsupported partitions or rebuild the partition table.
>-----Original Message----- >Thanks Calvin, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >. Tony Starr - 29 Jul 2004 01:52 GMT I booted under dos 6.22, used Fdisk to remove all partitions and created a Primary Dos Partition. I rebooted the system under Dos 6.2 and formatted the harddisk. It only seemed to give me a 2GB drive instead of the whole 160GB but I figured this was a Dos limitation and pressed ahead. I ran the Windows NT setup from CD using the WINNT /B command line. The first part of the installation ran well. I was instructed to reboot to allow the installation to continue. After rebooting the system got into a loop where it just kept rebooting itself.
I tried running the setup program again from floppy disk and it fell over in extacly the same place as before. Disk Two - Loading FAT File System.
Does this sound like I have faulty hardware? Should I be using a different tool to partition the hard drive? If so what do you recommend?
Regards Tony
> Thanks Calvin, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > > > Calvin. Dave Patrick - 26 Jul 2004 13:53 GMT See if George's idea will work for you.
 Signature Regards,
Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup. Microsoft Certified Professional Microsoft MVP [Windows] http://www.microsoft.com/protect
| Dave, | [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | Regards | Tony xe77 - 25 Jul 2004 19:18 GMT You have a bad boot diskette. Recreate the diskettes or use the CD-ROM to boot directly. You can recreate the diskettes from MS-DOS (with a CD-ROM driver) Boot to MS-DOS and Type: d: [ENTER] cd\i386 [ENTER] winnt /OX [ENTER] If running Windows NT's Virtual DOS or an MS-DOS shell type: winnt32 /OX [ENTER]
>-----Original Message----- >Dave, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Regards >Tony Calvin - 25 Jul 2004 02:54 GMT Hi Tony,
it is possible that the intial stage of setup is incorrectly recognising your hardware and selecting the wrong drivers to access it. Check the screen early in setup where it identifies your hardware (ie: motherboard type etc..) and ensure the right options are selected.
As to loading NT4 on a large harddisk, read this page:
http://nt4ref.zcm.com.au/bigdisk.htm
It should answer most of your questions regarding how to proceed, once you get the install to run successfully.
Calvin.
Tony Starr - 25 Jul 2004 07:26 GMT Calvin,
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately at the point that the Setup Program bombs out I have not been asked for any input. No configuration details have been displayed. The only think the setup program has asked for is for the second setup disk to be inserted.
Regards Tony
> Hi Tony, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Calvin. Jiri Tuma - 26 Jul 2004 10:56 GMT Seems you have incompatible hardware. Try <F6> key trick. Boot either form CD or floppies and, at begin of setup, when black screen with message like "setup is inspecting your hardware ..." appears, press <F6> key a few times (for sure as there is no immediate reaction). This will disable autodetecting and autoloading of standard mass storage drivers. As NT setup will not run autodecting routines, there is less chance to hang computer and it will allow you to load updated drivers instead of standard build-in versions. During this procedure NT setup will insert additional Mass storage devices configuration step just after first phase of setup (because of disabled autoloading, setup cannot access disk without manual loading of primary disk driver). Here you can use your floppy with updated atapi driver. Also do not forget to specify loading of standard atapi CD ROM device driver (select it from list of build-in drivers). This driver is normally autoloaded, but with <F6> it is not and if you do not load it manually, setup will lost access to setup CD after switching to NT kernel based phase of setup.
luck
George
> Folks I need some help. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thanks > Tony Tony Starr - 01 Aug 2004 07:58 GMT booted under dos 6.22, used Fdisk to remove all partitions and created a Primary Dos Partition. I rebooted the system under Dos 6.2 and formatted the harddisk. It only seemed to give me a 2GB drive instead of the whole 160GB but I figured this was a Dos limitation and pressed ahead. I ran the Windows NT setup from CD using the WINNT /B command line. The first part of the installation ran well. I was instructed to reboot to allow the installation to continue. After rebooting the system got into a loop where it just kept rebooting itself.
I tried running the setup program again from floppy disk and it fell over in extacly the same place as before. Disk Two - Loading FAT File System.
Does this sound like I have faulty hardware? Should I be using a different tool to partition the hard drive? If so what do you recommend?
Regards Tony
> Seems you have incompatible hardware. Try <F6> key trick. Boot either form > CD or floppies and, at begin of setup, when black screen with message like [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Thanks > > Tony Dave Patrick - 01 Aug 2004 15:27 GMT Try the F6 loading atapi.sys from SP4 or later.
 Signature Regards,
Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup. Microsoft Certified Professional Microsoft MVP [Windows] http://www.microsoft.com/protect
| booted under dos 6.22, used Fdisk to remove all partitions and created a | Primary Dos Partition. I rebooted the system under Dos 6.2 and formatted the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] | Regards | Tony Mark Miodus - 03 Aug 2004 14:48 GMT This message is for "Tony Starr" <tonyXXXnospamxxxStarr@ozemail.com.au
Tony,
>-----Original Message----- >Folks I need some help. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >. Mark Miodus - 03 Aug 2004 14:48 GMT This message is for "Tony Starr" <tonyXXXnospamxxxStarr@ozemail.com.au
Tony,
>-----Original Message----- >Folks I need some help. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >. Mark Miodus - 03 Aug 2004 14:51 GMT This message is for "Tony Starr" <tonyXXXnospamxxxStarr@ozemail.com.au
Tony, Did you ever get your issue resolved? If so what was the final approach that you took? I am facing a simimular issue with a gatewauy solo 9100 (yes the floppy drive is an LS 120) that has had a new (unformatted) 40G drive installed. There is a chance that what you had to do may help me avoid the same issue. Thanx, Mark
>-----Original Message----- >Folks I need some help. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >. Calvin - 03 Aug 2004 23:01 GMT Hi Mark,
I presume this machine has a CD-ROM drive. Is it bootable ? IF so you can boot from the NT install CD, and this seems to get you round the 'LS-120' problem.
As for installing to a 40GB HDD see http://nt4ref.zcm.com.au/bigdisk.htm for a suggested solution.
Calvin.
Tony Starr - 09 Aug 2004 06:31 GMT Mark,
I have still not got this problem resolved. How about you?
Folks,
Thank you all for your help. I am still stuck. Here is the current status. I have run the setup program supplying the Service Pack 4 version of Atapi.dll when prompted. The setup program ran to completion. I was then instructed to reboot the system to allow the setup program to complete the installation. On rebooting the system gets into a loop. The system first displays the messsage that Setup is inspecting the hardware configuration. Next a blue screen appears title Windows NT Setup. Within a second the system reboots itself and gets stuck in a loop of inspecting the hardware and rebooting.
Please help!!!
Regards Tony
> This message is for "Tony Starr" > <tonyXXXnospamxxxStarr@ozemail.com.au [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > > >. Calvin - 09 Aug 2004 07:37 GMT Hi Tony,
if you have access to the files - manually copy the latest ntldr. and ntdetect.com (from Service Pack 6a) onto the affected machine's system partition (overwriting the ones put there by the NT setup) and see if that helps :-)
Calvin.
Calvin - 09 Aug 2004 09:42 GMT Hi again Tony,
PS: the thought just occurred to me as well - please check the machine you are installing on is clean - the 'endless reboot loop' during setup is also a symptom possible in the case of a boot sector virus being present - better make sure this isn't the case before you continue.
Calvin.
Tony Starr - 10 Aug 2004 07:48 GMT Scanned for Viruses. None found.
Regards Tony
> Hi again Tony, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Calvin. Calvin - 10 Aug 2004 08:07 GMT Hi Tony,
Running out of ideas here - can you also check how the access to the HDD is configured in BIOS - I recommend it be locked in LBA mode, with fixed values (correct values for the geometry - the HDD detect function of BIOS is your freind here) ie: DON'T put it to 'automatic' (if the BIOS offers the option).
Past that I can't - without some more clues from you anyway - think of anything else.
Perhaps a bit more detail would help - HDD size, motherboard, processor, RAM, HDD connection standard (IDE/SCSI etc) any other non-standard peripherals etc...
Calvin.
Tony Starr - 10 Aug 2004 05:31 GMT Thanks Calvin
I gave this a try but had the same results.
Regards Tony
> Hi Tony, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Calvin. John S - 24 Aug 2004 17:21 GMT Tony Don't know if you resolved this...
I had similar problem
I took a workstation - loaded NT server - updated with all service packs and patches - cloned upto my network, then cloned back down to my machine that had a large harddrive and other hardware that NT server was not happy with ...
>-----Original Message----- >Folks I need some help. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >. Calvin - 24 Aug 2004 23:09 GMT Hi John,
Nothing heard from Tony since 10 August, so I'm unsure of whether his problem is solved or not.
Calvin.
Tony Starr - 30 Aug 2004 13:32 GMT Hi All,
At the end of the day, I went and bought Windows 2000 Pro. I loaded it, partitioning my hard drive so that the C:drive was a 4MB FAT, and the D: drive had the remaining 116 MB as NTFS. All installed nicely. Reinstalled windows NT and hit the same problem. Installation seems to go OK, I supply the ATAPI.dll from Service Pack 4 but when the system reboots to complete the installation things get nasty. The system starts to load NT, then the screen flickers and it goes into a reboot cycle.
In the end I gave up and installed Win 2000 Pro. I figure that some bit of hardware in my brand spanking new computer is incompatible with NT. This is not an ideal solution as I need to be able support clients using SQL Server 7.0 running under NT, but I can only have SQL Server 7.0 Desktop under Win 2000 Pro. I had to get the system back up and running so that I could get back to work. I am keeping my fingers crossed that I can get by with my current set up.
Anyway, thank you all so much for your help.
Regards Tony
> Hi John, > > Nothing heard from Tony since 10 August, so I'm unsure of whether his problem is > solved or not. > > Calvin.
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