I am hearing alot good things about running Exchange 2007 on VMware, infact
our VM vendor sugested that if we virtualize Exchange 2007, we would not be
impacted performance, and we would not need to use CCR or SCR for HA and DR.
We could setup a VM machine with 120 gigs of ram carve up 3 images mailbox
hub and CAS, connect to a netapp via iscsi. Use snap clones to snap the data
to another datacenter. In the event one of the images whent down, it would
very easy to restore this image from a schedule image clone. With this type
of solution in place i dont really see a need for CCR or SCR. Also the
images that are running on the VM server in datacenter A can be copied to a
VM server in Datacenter B.
Where am i going wrong here?
John Fullbright - 23 Jul 2008 23:51 GMT
Exchange 2007 isn't supported (by Microsoft) on VMWare for one. I would
expect a supportability statement for Exchange on Hyper-V real soon though.
If you can live with the above, then take a look at the roles. If your
organization is large enough that you're splitting out the Exchange roles, I
could see HUB and CAS virtualized no problem. The mailbox role with a lot
of mailboxes is going to be storage and memory intensive. As you get bigger
and beefier servers, the cost increase isn't necessarially linear. You'll
have to carefully consider the one big box plus VMWare licensing (or
Hyper-V assuming supportability) vs. the cost of more smaller boxses (don't
forget to add the costs of power, cooling, and rack space, etc. just to be
fair here).
For Storage, I'd strongly consider a SAN solution. The DAS vs. SAN decision
is independent of any server virtualization decision. Most SAN vendors pool
the storage and allow you to carve it up, so you can reduce or eliminate the
"islands of waste" problem of DAS. If it's Netapp, and you're leveraging
VSS for backups, the hardware VSS provider has virtually no performance
penalty. You can have up to 255 snaps in place per volume with only 3%
performance degradation. Compare that to Copy on Write providers, like the
MS software provider, where with as few as five snapshots in place
performance degrades to the point where the storage is unusable. For
Exchange 2007, application level replication is certainly available to you
for the price I like (free), so take a close look at CCR and/or SCR.
Compare that to the replication your hardware vendor offers, and how well
each of them meets your requirements. A lot of times you'll find that the
Exchange native application level replication will do, other times you'll
find it won't. It all depends on your specific requirements.
>I am hearing alot good things about running Exchange 2007 on VMware, infact
>our VM vendor sugested that if we virtualize Exchange 2007, we would not be
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Where am i going wrong here?
Mike Moreland - 25 Jul 2008 01:23 GMT
We are running our HUB/CAS roles on VM with great success. We utilize
physical servers for our mailbox clusters on a SAN fabric.
We also are using SCR to our business continuity site and it's the most
seamless Exchange disaster recovery configuration I've ever used, and it's
FREE!

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Mike Moreland
(C) 972.271.5083
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> Exchange 2007 isn't supported (by Microsoft) on VMWare for one. I would
> expect a supportability statement for Exchange on Hyper-V real soon though.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> >
> > Where am i going wrong here?
Oliver Moazzezi [MVP] - 24 Jul 2008 10:55 GMT
> Where am i going wrong here?
Believing VMWare or other Virtualization technologies can't break.
In all honesty you need to look at this from all angles, including cost.
A CCR Cluster for example will be two seperate nodes, with two seperate DAS
devices (more than likely) connected. If one breaks the other has no
dependancy.
Certain VMWare installations share storage, so if you single point of
storage breaks (no point in having a VM CCR cluster with both nodes pointing
to the same LUN right?) you're still going to have issues.
There's also the supportability stance, Microsoft may not support you as
well as if you were running physical hardware.
There's also the argument in how well does this virtualization
partner/consultant understand Exchange.
Oliver
Oliver Moazzezi [MVP] - 24 Jul 2008 10:59 GMT
And i'm not knocking virtualization technologies, for a small number of
users i'd recommend it, for a large enterprise I wouldn't - i'm sure others
will have different ideas an opinions too.
Oliver
Mark Arnold [MVP] - 24 Jul 2008 14:42 GMT
>I am hearing alot good things about running Exchange 2007 on VMware, infact
>our VM vendor sugested that if we virtualize Exchange 2007, we would not be
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Where am i going wrong here?
Sure, virtualization is an excellent idea. For the HT, CAS and Edge
it's a no brainer. When you look at virtualizing the mailbox servers
there are a lot of additional things to consider and a shift in
thinking.
Rather than scale the server as far up as you possibly can - shoving
several thousand users and the full 50 stores on it you should have
more guests and keep them down to 8 (or so) stores. Why? Simple. if
you want to use Vmotion you need to have enough resource on a
candidate target to move it. Having a hulking great guest that needs
24 or 32GB of memory severely restricts your options as to where you
can move it. Either that or you end up not utilizing the ESX server
efficiently enough because you're maintaining all that headroom just
in case you need to re-home a big fat guest.
Here's the contentious part. Obviously for this you cannot use
Hyper-V. The only way you can properly, reliably and efficiently
virtualize a mailbox server is with VMware attached to a SAN. The MS
model where you provide Hyper-V resilience with a cluster does not
lend itself to virtualizing mailbox servers.
Then of course you need to wait for the support model to come out and
make the necessary payments!
And that's my 2 cents worth of opinion, take it with as large a pinch
of salt as you wish.
John Fullbright - 24 Jul 2008 18:00 GMT
"> Rather than scale the server as far up as you possibly can - shoving
> several thousand users and the full 50 stores on it you should have
> more guests and keep them down to 8 (or so) stores. Why? Simple. if
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> efficiently enough because you're maintaining all that headroom just
> in case you need to re-home a big fat guest."
It's certainly a rethinking of the model. It goes against the trend of
deploying mailbox servers with as many storage groups as possible for sure.
Once again, consider what it's going to take to virtualize many small
mailbox servers on one big server. Consider both the advantages and
disadvantages and compare that to the unique needs of your organization.
>>I am hearing alot good things about running Exchange 2007 on VMware,
>>infact
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> And that's my 2 cents worth of opinion, take it with as large a pinch
> of salt as you wish.
Mark Arnold [MVP] - 24 Jul 2008 18:33 GMT
Yeah, it's the only way you can do it without leaving all your ESX
servers no more than 60 or 70% utilized just in case you need to move
that big hulking guest.
I wouldn't want to be quoted on saying that any virtualization of
mailbox servers is a good thing but if the business wants to do it
then scaling out rather than up (to steal the old Metaframe mantra)
provides the necessary flexibility.
John Fullbright - 24 Jul 2008 18:44 GMT
I leave that to the business based on thier unique requirements; each
organization is different. I think the best thing to do is clearly state
the pros and cons, then let the business do the calculations and decide.
John
> Yeah, it's the only way you can do it without leaving all your ESX
> servers no more than 60 or 70% utilized just in case you need to move
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> then scaling out rather than up (to steal the old Metaframe mantra)
> provides the necessary flexibility.
Andrew Sword [MVP] - 27 Jul 2008 09:25 GMT
If you are looking at VMWare try this site
http://www.vmware.com/landing_pages/exchange_solution.html
>I am hearing alot good things about running Exchange 2007 on VMware, infact
>our VM vendor sugested that if we virtualize Exchange 2007, we would not be
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Where am i going wrong here?